loading...
Level Nightclub
By John McDonald
The transgendered woman who claims she was insulted and humiliated at Level Nightclub after she tried to use the women’s washroom says the whole event would have been a non-issue if the club hadn’t used a display of force when asking her to leave.
“What bothered me the most is that they had ample opportunity when I first asked which washroom to use, if they thought something was wrong at that time, they could have simply asked me for ID instead of escalating it into a big show of strength and public humiliation,” said the woman, who asked that she be identified as Jane.
But nightclub owner Carly Wilson says the whole situation is a misunderstanding and that she and her establishment are welcoming of anyone regardless of sexual preference or orientation.
“I thought the whole thing ended on a good note,” said Wilson. “In my eyes, in a club full of people, half wearing disco costumes, when she asked for the bathroom, my instinct was to direct her to the men’s washroom. I didn’t do it for any other reason.”
Without revealing identifying details, Jane said she is 54 years old and just recently began living in Kelowna as a full-time woman, after living 17 years in Westbank.
Jane said she is a regular at the club, usually arriving late Saturday and dancing for the last hour of the club’s scheduled opening. “I love dancing,” Jane said. “I get called the club cougar by some of the young ladies there.”
Although a regular, Jane said she was confused when the doors to the lower level washrooms were closed and unmarked, unlike other nights when they were open and it was obvious which gender they were being used by.
After asking for the women’s washroom, Jane confirmed she was directed by club owner Carly Wilson to the men’s, but opted instead for her first choice.
After entering a stall, Jane said staff followed her into the washroom, and then accused her of “doing blow.”
“I’ve never used drugs in my life,” she said. “I don’t even know what blow looks like.”
When she came out of the stall, Jane said she was confronted by security staff with arms crossed lined up against the vanity and then escorted out.
“By now the house lights were up and people were gathered around watching,” Jane said. “I whispered into her that I was transgendered, but she didn’t listen and said out loud ‘you’re a man in women’s dress, and you shouldn’t be in the women’s washroom’.”
She said no violence was used against her, but she was also given short shrift when she tried to explain her situation.
“She grabbed my arm, but then let go. It wasn’t forceful, but I came willingly. I wonder what would have happened if I hadn’t?”
Jane admits she could have been better prepared for what followed.
“I’m five months now on hormones and I told [Wilson] that, but I did not have my carry letter that night because it was in a different purse. I showed her my interim drivers license that showed I was a female but it didn’t have a picture,” Jane said. “I told her was a regular, but she said she had never seen me before.”
For her part, Wilson said the accusations made against her are upsetting.
“I have friends, family, business associates in the gay community,” said Wilson. “This was a misunderstanding. I can’t keep my female patrons safe in the washrooms, if I let a male in there. Once she explained it to me, after that I made it clear with the front door staff that she was welcome in the house and to use the female facilities. I told them if they spotted her, that we would buy her a drink. There was no discrimination intended. I was in tears when I heard about this.”
Wilson alleges that a press release issued by the Trans Alliance Society of Vancouver outlining the incident was misleading.
“There was never any camera in the stall,” she added. “She was in the stall more than twice the usual time. A patron said she was doing blow. I asked her. She denied it and I dropped it. She didn’t get searched. They lied about that.”
Jane said she’s still waiting to hear back from Kelowna RCMP on whether she has grounds for a complaint against the club.
“In this day and age, this is not acceptable,” she added. “I have the right to live my life without interference and in that respect, I felt like I was at the back of the bus.”
She also questioned Wilson’s assertion that she had mistaken Jane for a man dressed up as a woman for Halloween.
“I didn’t see anybody else there in costume,” Jane said. “It’s very insulting. Even to make comments like that are transphobic slurs.”
Jane said she’s an active member of the community, currently looking to buy a condominium and a car in Kelowna, and has no plans to leave despite what happened.
For her part, Wilson said she’s had meetings since then with staff to clarify that Level welcomes everyone.
“Gay, lesbian, transgendered, it doesn’t matter to me,” she declared. “In fact, the more eclectic the better. If I was to bar her, I would have to bar some family and friends.”
Despite their differences, Wilson said she’s hoping a mediation between her and Jane arranged by Okanagan Pride for next week will settle the matter. “We’ll talk and figure it out,” she said. “I’m confident we can resolve this.”
john@kelowna.com
Update: 09/10/28 17:10 p.m.
By John McDonald
A transgendered Kelowna woman says staff at a local nightclub dragged her out of the women’s washroom and subjected her to “transphobic slurs” late Sunday night.
Marie Little, chair of the Trans-Alliance Society in Vancouver, outlined the incident in a media release sent out yesterday. According to the press release, the woman was directed to the male washroom after asking where the female washroom was located.
When she chose instead to use the female washroom, Little says staff stuck what appeared to be a video camera under the walls of the bathroom stall. They accused her of “doing blow” and pulled her out of the washroom.
Little says the woman’s attempt to show her identification and explain the situation was rebuffed and an employee insulted her, saying “you’re a man in a dress; men in dresses aren’t allowed in the women’s washroom.”
The employee apparently backed down somewhat and told the victim she was welcome at the club, but that it would be better if she didn’t use the washroom. Kelowna.com is trying to contact the owners of the nightclub for confirmation.
Kelowna RCMP were notified by the victim some 30 minutes after the incident and Little says Const. Brendan Harkness told the victim he would speak to Wilson about the incident.
In an interview from her Vancouver home, Little said the incident was a clear violation of the woman’s human rights, although she’s not sure if it warrants criminal charges.
“I think for sure, if there was a degree of violence, and especially if the person had a carry letter,” she said. “Trans people use the washroom that fits the gender they present. It would be dangerous to do otherwise.”
Little explained that a carry letter is a document a trans person who is consulting a psychologist or social worker will be provided with, explaining the situation.
“It’s so in cases like this, they can show the letter and defuse the situation,” Little added.
She has been following discussion of the incident on Facebook and said someone who knows the nightclub had written that the nightclub owner had mistaken the victim as someone dressed up for Halloween.
“All that would be necessary then would be an apology,” Little added.
Still, Little said the incident should be taken seriously, especially given that about five per cent of the population fits into the broad definition of transgendered, including those who cross dress and have not had any surgery or hormone treatment for sex reassignment.
“We count as trans, anyone who doesn’t meet society’s expectations of their birth sex,” said Little.
She added that Kelowna is not known as being particularly tolerant of trans people, although to be fair, neither is most of the rest of the province outside Vancouver.
“Aside from the fact that gay and lesbian clubs are usually trans friendly, Coastal Health is the only health authority in the province that offers services to trans people, so they tend to gravitate there,” Little added.
But Little said there are also few formal complaints laid of discrimination against trans people.
“Usually, trans people are just made to feel uncomfortable, so they don’t make a big deal about it, they carry out their business and leave as quickly as possible,” Little said.
john@kelowna.com
20 Responses to “Update: Nightclub owner says allegations of discrimination against transgendered woman a misunderstanding”
Tags: level nightbclub, trans people, transexual, transgender
loading...
I guess I don’t understand this “persons” view that it is wrong for society to make her feel uncomfortable but it is OK for “it” to make others uncomfortable because of “it’s” choices and then the idea a letter from a social worker is a “carte blanche” to spite societies conventions. This person needs to get off her soapbox, stop preaching and stop being so selfish and realise that “she” is causing others feelings of stress and anxiety and will be dealt with as such.
loading...
this is a very sad state of affairs
loading...
Sean,
You are right! You don’t understand and neither do I BUT,
The bigger issue here is the fact that they put a camera under a stall in a BATHROOM, then accused he/she of doing drugs and then allowed this person to remain in the establishment.
Forget the Anxiety of others. If this is true, this establishment should have called the police if there was a concern of “Safety and Anxiety” of others.
The drug issue aside (if there is one)
Every individual reserves the right and freedom to live whatever way is comfortable to them.
In all honesty, I give this individual kudos for expressing their TRUE self…ESPECIALLY at a Night club in Kelowna.
Sean, your comments about “choice,” and calling this individaul an “it” is discusting. You need a reality check.
Step out of your GLASS box and I’ll Quote you;
“stop preaching and stop being so selfish and realize that “YOU” have NOW caused others feelings of stress and anxiety with your uneducated comments!
loading...
Sarah, so instead of coming up with a valid argument you chose to attack me…well done. If someone chooses to live outside of societies norms then you cannot expect to be dealt with in a normal fashion P.S. learn to spell
loading...
Not sure how I feel about this one.
Though I think everyone should be entitled to dress how they want, it should not come at the expense of anyone else.
I am not a woman, but I can only speculate that some women might feel VERY uncomfortable sharing a washroom with a man (despite the clothes he is wearing at the time). Though I don’t agree with how the night club supposedly handled the situation, I do agree with them asking this person to use the men’s washroom. If you have all the “equipment” that makes you a male, then use the men’s washroom.
loading...
Let’s look at this issue in terms of competing rights. On the one hand, chewy1979 is saying that some cisgender (ie. non-trans) women would feel uncomfortable with a male-appearing person wearing female clothing coming into the restroom, finding a stall, doing their business, washing their hands, and leaving. (I might also point out that some cisgender women can also be masculine-appearing, such as butch lesbians, who have just as much right to use the women’s room as any other cisgender woman, yet also can cause this same discomfort for others in the restroom with them).
Let’s compare that to a transgender woman going into a male washroom. She faces the fear of ridicule, humiliation, and possibly physical violence from others in the restroom.
When put in perspective, I think the choice is pretty clear. I might add that the prevalence of sexual assault from trans women (a common fear used by cisgender women to exclude trans women from women’s spaces) is no higher than the prevalence of sexual assault from cisgender women.
loading...
Sean,
Calling the kettle black aren’t we?
Realize IS NOT spelled with a “S” unless you’re British or French…
As for mine, I had a typo and one error. I’m human…
AND who are you to say what “Society Norms are??”
Thank you for a great debate today. I would like to ask that we agree to disagree. I hope the rest of your day is good and that you keep healthy.
Cheers.
loading...
Obama just signed into law at new bill that makes it a crime to assault someone because of their sexual preference or identity (in the US). I read it as any type of assault, physical, verbal or emotional.
It is about time that we practiced acceptance of everyone, regardless of our personal opinions – especially here in Canada.
loading...
ok…all i gotta say is this: people with XX chromosomes use the female washroom, & those with XY chromosomes use the male washroom. how freakin difficult is that?
loading...
i agree with obamas law, but some people just abuse of that liberty of being and even judge others around them because they assume and expect everyone around them to be okay with what personal choices they made for themselves. by personal experience in life, nobody gains respect and acceptance, by being and acting like a victim.
loading...
Calling a transwoman “it” or a man in drag is hurtful and hateful. A transwoman is a woman and people who feel uncomfortable are going to have to get over it. Feeling uncomfortable about someone’s gender identity does not trump the safety and dignity of transwomen.
As for categorizing people by their chromosomes, it isn’t as simple as that. As much as we like to think of sex as a dualistic category where we are either one or the other, it isn’t that simple and many people fall outside of this binary system.
As for the club owner, I am irritated by his confusion of sexual orientation and gender identity, although it is entirely possible that it was the way his quotations were reported. If he was really sincere, he would meet with this woman and apologise and put training in place so that it never happens again. A drink ain’t going to cut it.
loading...
There is a thing called freedom dictated by democracy, that
handles things like this. People are not to be subjected
to this kind of treatment as pointed out by Sarah, in our
society plain and simple. I am an old grandpa who hears
any number of things, and the world is a very different
place than when I was young. Even so, I have 23 grand kids
but even at my age, someone being gay, or transgender or
anything else people are labeled with, don’t frighten me.
That is what makes people uncomfortable, fear, of others.
Fear leads to ridicule, and attitude, and that in itself
is sad, because with a little understanding one can get
beyond being uncomfortable and maybe even find some compassion for others. Its funny how we see all the things
happening around us, and we talk about societies norms,
All law abiding citizens are now acting within societies
norms, we are living in a whole new world and some people
don’t understand, I don’t either but at least I can try.
loading...
whatthe: do YOU know what your chromosomes are? I mean, you can assume that they match your physical sex, but without testing your genes, you have no way to know for sure. There are various medical conditions where an individual may grow up physically as one sex, but have the chromosomes of another. Caster Semenya is a sad but notable example of this occuring.
loading...
I just hope that everyone can come to some sort of agreeable conclusion with the mediation happening, and that this will help transgendered individuals be more comfortable in this area. It’s an unfortunate situation and am sorry it had to happen. Transgendered people are all around us. You may work with them, shop with them, socialize with them and not even know it.I’m sure it something Jane didn’t want made so public. I can’t imagine how humiliating this was/is for her.
loading...
I cant believe this is still going on! How is this a danger to women in their washroom? A trans woman is exactly that a WOMAN, if someone is going to be this cautious about peoples safety in bathrooms perhaps they should have a machine so same sex people aren’t able to use the washroom either! I cant imagine how this poor woman felt being treated like some perv! Im sure if anyone who has an issue with the trans community actually met someone, got to know someone who is trans, they would close down any establishment that would treat ANYONE like this!
loading...
I usually don’t read comments left on news sites because some people have obtuse opinions that I find frustrating. Since this issue is important to me, I’ll sit with this discomfort for the time being.
*sigh* The victim in this incident is not on a soapbox, she is speaking out against an injustice that happened to her (yes “her”, silly). There are no reports of complaints from other patrons, the staff took it upon themselves to act based on their own opinions/ prejudices.
This incident was no doubt damaging to the victim. Can you imagine the bravery it takes for a trans person to come out in public as their true identified self, knowing full well the vicious intolerance that many people feel toward them? And then to gain a certain degree of comfort in a place, to feel “regular”, only to have the proprietor ambush you in the washroom and escort you out. How do you think would that feel?
Gender is not determined by chromosomes, or whether you were dressed in blue or pink as a baby. Gender is about personal identity.
Love you,
MiHu
Ed. note: This comment was edited slightly for content. Back off your Bic’s people, these are live issues that aren’t helped by flame wars.
loading...
Let’s be honest here….. If anybody would look at this from a business standpoint, if there is a patron in a bar that is making others uncomfortable, the bar has every right to remove the problem. We live in a society that unfortunately hasn’t fully accepted or understands that lifestyle, so if it’s going to hurt someone’s business, should it not be up to the owner of the establishment? This specific nightclub I believe is geared towards people ages 19-40. I happen to frequent this establishment, and the owners and staff are always gracious and accepting. I often look around on the dancefloor and half the people are gay/lesbian/transgender. This is simply a case of one of them being overdramatic and going to the media simply for the sake of crying about discrimination. Suck it up, you made the choice, you deal with the critisism.
loading...
And might I add, I guarantee these other people whining about discrimination in these comments, have never stepped foot in Level, never met the owners, and never met “Jane”. You are all attacking a family run business that has been donating very generously to the cancer society, and working alongside with the local RCMP to make nightlife safe for everyone. Do a little research next time you start making these allegations.
loading...
Sean wrote: “If someone chooses to live outside of societies norms then you cannot expect to be dealt with in a normal fashion.”
Sean, that’s like saying that if your neighbor is Jewish you don’t have to follow the Golden Rule when dealing with him. Just because SOMEONE ELSE is what you consider abnormal doesn’t mean that you aren’t a hypocrite if you treat them any differently than you treat anybody else. Live and let live, or is that no longer considered a North American tenet?
loading...
To be clear… the pronoun is SHE. Jane is female, regarless of outward sexual organs. GENDER IS NOT LIMITED TO FEMALE OR MALE BODY PARTS.
Those of you weighing in on the subject, but with clearly zero knowledge regarding a person who is transgendered, have no right making any kind of comment. Until you can form an EDUCATED opinion, based on facts and real knowledge on the matter surrounding Jane, all you do is solidify your intolerant, fear-based, ridiculously ill-educated transphobia. A transWOMAN is NOT “a man in a dress”. Put the internet to some good use in your household, and READ UP ON TRANSGENDERED PERSONS. Stop flappin’ your gums until you do… because you’re just showing the world how completely uneducated you really are.
As for Jane… my dear, you should be proud of yourself for keeping your witts about you when faced with such a humiliating situation. And whats more, good on you for NOT keeping quiet about it either! This world will never learn tolerance, respect and compassion for ALL HUMANS, if those being wronged don’t come forward. You have my endless support!
I also think that it’s commendable to see the club owner so willing to resolve the issue. This is a very important step in achieving universal understanding!
Please continue discussion on the forum: link