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Competitors race in Sunday's Okanagan International Marathon in Kelowna. (Photo Chris Sanford)
Updated: 09/10/13 10:59 a.m.
Runners in Sunday’s Okanagan International Marathon in Kelowna who accidently ran an extra loop will now have their times lowered to reflect the added distance.
“Those small number [of runners] that we got requests from,” said race director Tom Keogh, “we’ll be adjusting their times.”
Confusion on the course resulted in some full-marathoners doing an extra 575-metre loop meant only for those doing a half-marathon. As a result, some runners who were using the Okanagan race to qualify for more high-profile ones like the Boston Marathon, just missed making their qualifying times.
A runner’s time will be adjusted according to a set formula and “will be recognized as a legitimate time” that can be used to register for other races, said Keogh.
That is music to the ears of Lisa Fath of Okotoks, Alta., who followed a group of runners through the extra loop, missed qualifying for Boston by 29 seconds and was totally devastated.
But today, “I’m totally elated. I mean, that is actually an understatement,” she said. “I think it really speaks to the fact they were concerned about maintaining the integrity of the race.”
Fath said she is “thrilled” to finally be able to run the Boston Marathon.
“It’s been a dream of mine most of my adult life so I feel totally elated that I will be finally able to go.”
adrian@kelowna.com
250-575-3517
Updated: 09/10/12 10:17 a.m.
By Holly Miyasaki and Adrian Nieoczym
The Okanagan International Marathon’s event director blames “herd mentality” for some runners’ completing an extra 500 metres. But that explanation is not sitting well with one runner who just failed to qualify for the prestigious Boston Marathon as a result of the added distance.
At the corner of Abbott and Christleton half marathoners were to turn right and complete an additional 500-metre loop while the full marathoners were to continue going straight.
“Some of the full marathoners went with the half marathoners…the herd mentality is to go with the pack,” said event director Tom Keogh.
While Keogh admitted there were not enough signs and the marshals were overwhelmed by the number of runners, he said that in the end, it’s up to the runners to know what the route is.
“Knowledge of the route is the runners’ responsibility.”
That’s not good enough for Lisa Fath, who brought her family here from Okotoks, Alta., so she could try to qualify for the world-famous event in Boston. Running the extra loop with two kilometres to go in the race meant she missed the cutoff by 29 seconds.
“At that point of a marathon, and I’ve run a few of them, you rely so heavily on the course being marked and marshaled properly to know where to go,” she said. “We were all sort of following the leader at that point.”
She added that she has replayed the course of events in her head over and over again and doesn’t think she could have done anything differently. All the other runners were going the same way and she can’t conceive of how, as an out of towner running a marathon here for the first time, she could have gone in a different direction.
“I’m afraid that if I had run the other ways, I would have been yelled at for cheating.”
Fath said she was wearing a GPS device during the race and that up until the point where she veered onto the extra loop, it had been “bang on” with the course markers. She was also on pace to achieve her goal.
“I trained very hard to qualify for Boston and I felt up to that point that I had run well enough to make it,” she said. “To not achieve it for as something as simple as the course not being marked properly or not having enough marshals out, is very disappointing.”
Her disappointment is compounded by the fact that she picked Kelowna over Victoria when choosing which B.C. marathon to run in her bid to qualify for Boston.
“We’d never been to Kelowna,” said Fath, who brought her two kids with her. “We thought we’d make a bit of a holiday out of it.”
But once the race was done, Fath was so upset, they just packed up the car and drove home instead of sticking around to enjoy the sights.
“So it made for a long car ride too,” she said.
She also said that while she would like to see her time adjusted to reflect the extra distance she ran, and thus allow her to qualify for the Boston Marathon, she isn’t holding her breath.
However, Keogh said organizers are reviewing the race and investigating whether or not anything can be done to change runners’ times.
Runners concerned about their times and wanting more information can contact Keogh at info@okanaganmarathon.com with their bib number.
The Okanagan International Marathon took place Sunday throughout Kelowna. The event saw over 3,000 runners take part in the 15th annual event.
entertainment@kelowna.com
adrian@kelowna.com
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I have run this marathon twice. It is a poorly organized event and the fact that so many people went of course is virtually unheard of at “International” marathons. There are other choices for marathons out there over Thanksgiving and runners would be wise to go to them. The major race sponsor is well known for profits over runners!
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You are correct about the herd mentality and the mentality of those that train at the running room in that the runners will goto one of their races but unfortunately they will not get a chance to participate in a classy race such as the Victoria Marathon. I have ran Red Deer, Boston, Kelona, Chicago & Chicago, in that order. Kelona was the only dud, a pathetic awards ceremony, well lets just say it wasn’t a ceremony! I liked the womens over all winner trophy had the spelling of Okanagan incorrect. I would have loved that for my mantel piece as I would have been a great conversation piece for years on running room organization.
Mind you Edmonton’s Marathon, quote, “Festival” was a joke a number of years ago, but the course was well marked and the entrance into the coliseum was nice. I’ve heard that’s it’s improved since 2002 with a new committee.
A number of us liked the beer at the finish line in Chicago last year! I need the beer to drown my sorrow for missing the under 3 hours by a minute and change! (A little off topic but my sense of humor!)
I do feel John Stanton is has become a successful business man but has done next nothing for the running community out side those who come into his store and buy expensive running gear. Once I counted his face 31 times in his 8 or 10 page magazine a few years back. What a joke. It also shows what he thinks of his under paid staff.
I lived in Edmonton during that faithful year he open his first store in Edmonton. Who would have known! Things looked promising between his store and running community back then.
I like the fact that certain stores in Calgary will not accept Calgary Road Runners sponsored events pamphlets. We are a volunteer organization that support all runners in the community through membership fee and a few sponsored races. We support races from Junior High athletes to elite runners through out the Calgary community and surrounding area.
Maybe they should send a pair of eyes our way and read CRR missions statement:
“It is our Mission Statement to facilitate, foster and promote distance running for pleasure, fitness, competition and sportsmanship. It is our intention to serve as a network for socializing and as a forum for discussing matters affecting the interests of runners, and to advocate on matters of interest and concern to runners in their pursuit and enjoyment of running.”
Cheers,
Danny
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The runners responsibility? Maybe so. And I don’t think that the times should be adjusted. However, the times for this event are pretty much a farce now.
Marathon runners added time on to their course by going the wrong way but that’s not the only problem. I and at least ten other half marathoners in front of me, plus another group in front of and with my wife, and who knows how many more, failed to negotiate the Christleton loop and had no marshalling to tell me otherwise. We were well in front of the first marathon people too. A vast majority of the initial half marathon times are going to be out by around 3 minutes (the times appearing quicker than they should be) due to this.
I wonder if the announced ‘world record’ 70+ runner didn’t count because of the error?
We paid to have a well marshaled 1/2 marathon course with accurate timings and positioning. We didn’t get it. All placings are pretty much void as people ran different routes. Ridicuous.
I feel really sorry for the guys that missed out on Boston. The sheer volume of training that people put in to a qualifying race when they are near the cut off makes the event a bitter pill to swallow I am sure.
This should not have happened and I think racers are due an apology.
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The Running Room is behind all this. The Race Director is employed by the Running Room….Just another one of Stantons cash grab events!
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I ran the Half-Marathon course and loved it. I feel very bad for those marathoners who missed their Boston Qualifying time or Personal Best. As a participant and organizer of many athletic events I feel it is the responsibility of the Race Director to ensure the course is correct and properly signed. When you are near the end of a race, your mind and body are tired, and I cannot conceive of anyone breaking with the pack and not doing that extra distance. It is just not reasonable. Let’s hope race organizers can adjust the time.
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How does changing results express integrity?!?!? This is an utter disaster. The entire set of resuts should be scrapped, and participants should be refunded.
What a joke.
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A “herd mentality” is to blame for Marathon runners missing a turn? We runners are supposed to know the entire route? Are you kidding me? Talk about insulting! I ran the marathon on Sunday. There was no one in front of me when I arrived at the corner of Abbott and Christleton and yet I too ran the extra 575 metre loop. Come on Tom Keogh call it what it was. There were no marshals and no signs present to tell marathoners to go one way and half marathoners to go the other way.
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For the race director to say it was “herd mentality” and the fault of the runners is simply astounding – it borders on disrespect. Anyone who has run a marathon knows full well that near the end of the race (the Half Marathon extra loop was at the 40k mark) all the runners are near exhaustion and mentally drained. To have to make a decision on which way to go at that point of the race is extremely poor course management. There could have been flashing neon signs and dozens of marshalls screaming at people telling them which way to go – and I guarantee,at the 40k point in a marathon, people would still go off course.
I’m looking forward to the public apology Tom Keogh makes to all the runners who spent months training for this event who paid close to $100 only to be insulted because they didn’t pay attention to the course. Rubbish!
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@Mark Martens – all good points but I’m not sure alluding to a corporate conspiracy helps. I suppose running out of water in Chicago was a sponsor’s fault too? The buck stops with the Race Director, not his/her paymaster.
The times should not be adjusted. This is compounding the problem. If the Kelowna organizers want to send letters to the Boston people begging for mercy then so be it but the times should stand. It is the runner’s responsibility to know the route beforehand, no matter how cold-hearted that may seem.
That’s not to let the race off the hook – this should never have happened. Kelowna should find a better organizer, and Boston should remove any association with it until it can show it is a worthy marathon.
This does nothing to hurt Victoria’s reputation as the best marathon in the west. Next year Kelowna should be renamed the “Sorry” marathon and anyone who asks from this year’s race should be given a free entry for next year’s.
Finally a word to the wise – Boston is all well and good, but there are better marathons and also more exclusive ones (see qualifying times for Fukuoka…). So it really would be wrong to expect prospective BQers to act like anything else but sheep…
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@Danny Beaman:
is Stanton’s face all over a magazine any different from you letting drop your marathon time off topic? Wow, just over 3 hrs. You’re my hero.
And how was Red Deer? Did you hate it because it was a Running Room race :0) So if one was good, the other bad, maybe the team on site need to be changed at Kelowna, not the race owner (without whom there would be no race, love ‘em or hate ‘em).
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I have ran this race several times, and winning the event in 2007 with a time of 2:38. This year, I was, what I thought, in 2nd place following the leader, Hans Aabye. He was about 2-3 minutes ahead of me. At times, I had to guess the course, lack of markers, and as I was running, the volunteers were running beside me putting out the race markers. At one corner, volunteers just got there in time and told me and another runner to turn. Hans ran passed that point because he was ahead of us. At the 28 k point, I was running blindly because there were no markers anywhere, and when I asked volunteers if I am going the right way, they responded, “I don’t know.” Also, at the major intersection where the marathoners needed to do another loop, I told the volunteer, “This is my second loop.” She responded by telling me to keep going in the wrong direction. There were no signs at that intersection. So I kept running until I finally reach a volunteer that told me I was going the wrong way, and I had to go back. This is at running an extra 4k. I was done at that point. To say it is up to the athlete is simply not owning up to the responsible of running an event. We should all get our money back for running such a horrible race. It is simply a money grab event. I wanted to run a local event, and support this local event, by not going to Victoria. But my day ended poorly, I was on route to a 2:37-38 day, but I simply went home. Tom has not responded to my emails or phone calls. “Herd mentality,” you say. Well buddy, good luck getting anybody to run you course next year.
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I was incensed with the race directors comment that it is the runner’s resposiblity to know the course. This was a very complicated course and the 1/2 marathon detour had no signs telling the marathoners to go straight. Everyone that I talked to did the extra 575 meters in the marathon. At this point in the run, I can’t even spell my name, let alone decipher and unmarked course. Shame on you Tom Keough for disrespecting most of the runners who paid almost $100 to be in your race!
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to all those Runners who missed out on qualifing for Boston or just obtaining personal bests, I do feel your pain and anger, because I am also one of you….Runners are an unique group of people…we all feel each others pain, and joys of finishing, because we have all been there. We have run those long km’s, thinking they will never end, and we have all gotten up one those early Sunday mornings when most are sleeping… So to have Tom Keogh lay blame on us, and make an absolutly ridiculus comment about Herd Mentality…..Please I’m not sure if times can be changed, but take some responsibilty, and more importantly accountabilty….this is your race, a mistake has happened…admit it and move towards resolving it..
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I agree 100% with Scott Tremblay’s comments. I have run several marathons in my life, and have never seen anything so disorganized as what I witnessed on Sunday.
My son and I went to watch the marathon at the Swamp Rd. turning circle near Mission Creek. We were astounded to see that the race organizers were still placing pylons on the course *minutes* before the first runner was due to arrive.
Worse, it became clear to us that those placing the pylons did not even know what route the runners were supposed to take through the turning circle!
I ran the half marathon in this event a few years ago and it was horribly disorganized at that time as well. Seems nothing has changed. They cannot get even the most basic things right in this race.
For the race director to blame the runners, of all people, lacks all decency.
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I attended the marathon as a volunteer at a water station on Abbot St.
We were told to arrive around 8:00 to 8:15 as runners weren’t supposed to arrive until 8:45.
There was no sign of a water station however when the few of us volunteers arrived. after about 10 minutes we did find it 2 blocks from where it was supposed to be located.
by the time that we were able to start setting up some runners were already heading by us yelling ‘you’re not even ready yet!’ we were also given no direction what so ever on how to set up, but managed once a marshall went by and gave some direction.
we did hear of many people letting us know that people were running off course, but as we were only volunteers weren’t able to do anything about it, as we didn’t have anyone to contact.
I feel sorry for the people that ran off course, yes they should know it, but when you’ve already run close to 40k it seems easy to get off course in a residential area that is not marked off.
I also feel sorry for those first 20 runners that weren’t able to get any water from our water station. i congratulate the winners and look forward to volunteering again next year, if not participating.
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@ Kelowna: Thanks for your comments. And thank you for volunteering. If you got any negative comments from the runners, I assure you, they were only out of frustration, and that EVERYONE really appreciates what you folks do!
@ James: You are absolutely correct about the 1/2 marathoners cutting out that loop. I did it too, and have asked to be removed from the official results. I can’t see how any reputable sporting organization would let any results from this race stand – 1/2 or full alike.
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I have sent the following to kelowna marathon and BAA
Hello
I was a marathoner this weekend in Kelowna. Suffice to say I was shocked to look at my watch at 42.2 k and realize that I was no where near the finish line. This was my first marathon and the experience was not good to say the least (ran the half in Kelowna the last 2 years and mileage issues with these two as well). I was running blind after the 40k mark as there was little to no signage. People running off course in front of me. The dreaded extra loop! etc. I found it hard to believe that in the part of the race that I, an inexperienced runner, would feel you need the most marshalling, there was none. I saw one camera person in the last 3k after the 40k mark. The quote by Tom Keogh the there was a herd mentality does not make sense to me as there were no half marathon runners on the course at 3:30. He admits that there were not enough marshals. Then admit that he made a major mistake. Apologize publicly and on the website and ensure that this does not happen again. If Tom feels runners need to carry a map and compass to run his marathon then advertise it as a 42k + orienteering marathon or maybe ultimately he should no longer continue to be race director. I don’t feel that this race is worthy currently of being a BQ and should be removed until you can prove that you can do the job properly.
“Some of the full marathoners went with the half marathoners…the herd mentality is to go with the pack,” said event director Tom Keogh.
While Keogh admitted there were not enough signs and the marshals were overwhelmed by the number of runners, he said that in the end, it’s up to the runners to know what the route is.
“Knowledge of the route is the runners’ responsibility.”
above quoted from kelowna.com By Holly Miyasaki and Adrian Nieoczym
http://www.kelowna.com/2009/10/13/update-okanagan-marathon-times-will-be-adjusted/
Unsure as to wether I will run with you again and I will be forwarding this to BAA
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I ran the half this weekend and had the chance to drive the course beforehand. When I hit the turn at Christensen there were at least 30 people in view and none of them did the turn, as there were no volunteers directing traffic there.
When I arrived at the finish and had my suspicions confirmed by my garmin I had the RD withdraw my results.
The best part was listening to people talk about their personal best times while wearing Garmins. Hmmm …
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I am one of the people affected by the wrong turn. Are you kidding me that a runner who is pushing should know every turn and fork in the course. This course was complex at best and had confusing loops and turns throughout. I was holding an exact Boston qualifying pace from about 38kms to the very end, almost 43 kms. I am totally dissapointed; I worked hard in training and ran a race worthy of qualifying for Boston. If allowed it will come down to a formula which does not take into account that many runners may have ran that last 575meters with a tired body and defeated attitude. I beleive that this Marathon’s reputation is permanently tarnished and perhaps this should be the last one under this label.
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I racewalked the marathon and was quite distressed when I reviewed the results on-line the day after. The marathon walker’s results were not posted at the event even though I stayed for a massage and walked around a bit waiting for them to be put up.
I’m so glad to see these messages – I remember telling my sister that the last 2 kilometers seemed to go forever even though I was still doing a strong pace.
My biggest disappointment was with the finishing placement. The results had me as the second walker, however the first walker had no 3rd lap time. I was ahead on lap 1 by 17 minutes and on lap 2 by 34 minutes but ended up in second place by nearly an hour – it seems clear to me that the first walker missed doing the 10K loop again at the 28/38 mark. I’m sure it was not deliberate. In fact if I hadn’t stopped and asked I might have missed it too.
The rest of the walkers also had no 3rd lap time (I suspect that the mats had been removed by the time they got there), but all took over 2 hours on top of the second lap time to finish. It just seems very strange that 10K of the course can be missed and no-one questions it.
Changing the start times so that the walkers did not go out an hour early was a terrible decision. The mileage markers were gone, there were no marshals – I was going down Lakeshore not knowing where the turn was to get to Water. When I had to stop for traffic lights I just took the next street and hoped that it led to Water.
My sister took long range photos of me on Water both coming and going. There was no-one in front or behind me – not a sign or person in sight… if I didn’t have a number on you wouldn’t know I was even participating in an event.
Part of the reason I entered this event was that they have awards for the top walkers and an early start time so the walkers are still part of the event not left out on their own.
By the time they announced the change in start times it was too late to change events.
I disagree with the comments made about the Running Room – my home store (Burnaby) has been incredibly supportive and encouraging in my progress with racewalking over the past year. I don’t think I would have made it to this point without them.
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Hello Anybody there?We are the lone walkers of the marathon.Especially if it’s 42.2K.There was no one along the lines cheering us other than the great volunteers who waited till the last minute to give us a glass of water.No marshals, no signage and no pylons.Please take the 42.2K walk out of the marathon if you guys have no respect for the walkers.I heard that John Stanton’s book on walking is going to be out if not out already.Can someone tell that money making machine to quit pretending that he really cares about walkers.As far as the director is concerned ,he is an embarassment.
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Has anyone looked at the overall female winner? What is up with this? 1 mat time, she does not show up for the awards presentation, there are no photos of her – who is she???? Does anyone here know her? I googled her name – the only other race she has been in (published) was a half marathon walk in 2008 in Edmonton, in which she took 3:51 to walk it. I think there has been an error here. I think she walked a half and somehow got included in the full marathon run……..not the end of the world, but for those people who placed in positions 2, 3 and 4 – they are out their hardware
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What began as an enjoyable marathon on a fast course on a cold day terminated rather badly. My GPS indicated that I was on for a 3:08 or 3:09 marathon, so I was somewhat surprised to see 3:12+ on the clock as I crossed the finish line. I then realized that I probably should not have followed the herd after 40k, but I guess I lacked the divine inspiration to do otherwise. Having run 20 previous marathons, maybe I should have realized that a proportion of the field tend to go in the wrong direction, and that I would be in their wake! My concern was not for myself, but for the young lad from Calgary who had run fast enough to qualify for Boston, but now found that he was 5 seconds short. For his sake, and for the sake of others who used this race as a BQ qualifier, I applaud the fact that the times will be revised. However, having read the emails (especially the one from Scott Tremblay), I now realize that the situation was much worse than many of us had realized.
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“…. Those small number [of runners] that we got requests from,” said race director Tom Keogh, “we’ll be adjusting their times…”
Nice try buddy, the small number refers to those just missing out on Boston. The small number is not the amount of people with screwed times or that went the wrong way.
It’s the race directors responsibility not to take our money, put together a half assed event and then blame the runners when it goes wrong and then spin the fact that it affected a small number of runners.
Tom Keogh + Running Room = worthless race times and placings. period.
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I noticed on the results that several runners do not have a 3rd lap time. Based on the first and second lap times shown it appears that they too might have missed a 10K loop.
I wonder how many ended up with a qualifying time for Boston that wasn’t actually earned…
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From the RR website:
“Marathon Race Participant Update”
On behalf of our sponsors and organizing committee, we would like to apologize to any marathon athletes that may have been directed off course in the 2009 BMO Okanagan Marathon.
We are currently working with our timing company to adjust your times as per AIMS and IAAF standards for time adjustments. We will be reviewing our race procedures to ensure your and our expectations are maintained.
We would like to thank you for your ongoing support in setting a record number of participants in 2009 and look forward to more records being set in 2010.
Tom Keogh
Race Director
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Four comments on my previous post:
1. why does the job title not say “ex” race director?
2. will the times be adjusted for just anyone who asks? How are the truly affected to be discerned from and BQ opportunists – is the honour code to be relied upon?
3. (controversial) the times have got to stand, right or wrong. Everyone who asks for a refund should be given one.
4. Good luck with record numbers next year. I mean, there’s optimism and then there’s blind denial…
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Tom Keogh says on the marathon web site: “We would like to thank you for your ongoing support in setting a *record number* of participants in 2009″
The emphasis on “record number” is mine. Here are the participant numbers for the marathon using data from the Running Room’s own web sites:
Years Runners
2009 569
2008 390
2007 596
2006 690
2005 753
So in the last 5 years, 2009 was the second worst year on record in terms of number of participants.
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Re: record numbers,
I think this use of the term record numbers is a little like media use of the term for record snowfall etc. You read a report and it says 10cm is a record snowfall and then later you read that the record is for that specific date…
So maybe 569 is a record number of marathoners for an Oct 11 in Kelowna?
Maybe the 2009 number would have been a record if only so many ‘weak-willed’ runners didn’t drop out when they realized they had ran an extra 4k ;0)
Or maybe 2009 was a record for an ULTRA in Kelowna (technically anything more than marathon distance, no?)
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results have been adjusted. seems they adjusted them whether you asked to or not…
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Congratulations to all the runners of the Kelowna Marathon 2009.
After running 38km I to was not sure if I run the loop twice or not. Being a visitor you don’t remember your surroundings or location as you are running. I to ran the loop again at Watt Rd. and Ricther St., as I was running, not sure if I was going in the right direction, another runner was running back and said we are running the wrong way because he saw the 30km mark. I turn around and headed back to my disbelieve. The extra plus 2km made the run long, plus the extra 600m loop near the end because there was no marshall directing the marathoners and 1/2 marathoners. I have learned in the future on smaller marathons I will know the course better. My higher finishing time will now put me into the 2nd wave in the Boston Marathon(completed 6 Bostons)
One other comment is the metals for placing in your category is the same as the finishers metal, at least they should change the ribbon.
Thank you to all the volunteers especially at the aid stations, you did a great job!
I don’t know if I will be back again.
Dennis
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Notice that the female winner of the marathon is now listed in the half marathon????? She went from 1st overall in the marathon to near last in the half marathon. What a debacle.
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I was the full marathon race leader, I was misdirected at the corner of Lakeshore and Lexington. I ended running about 4km past until I convinced myself that I was way off course, I ran 4km back to the corner, and had a very heated argument with those who misdirected me, as you could imagine I was furious. They told me that it was my fault eventhough I had ran past the van that was still marking the course at 14km. Did I run too fast. I trained incredibly hard for this race, and I realisticly came to win. And for this to happen cut me really deep. They even threatened to kick me off the course. Eventhough my aspirations were completely destroyed, I decided to continue the race despite my anger and frustration. I ended up running 50km when everything was said and done. And have not yet been given any apology or anything like that.
$100 sure doesnt get you much these days, I dont agree on ammending results, whats done is done. Its heartbreaking but as far as I am concerned the first to cross the finish line is the winner. Shame on you guys, this will not be forgotten
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Hans, as noted in my earlier post I was watching the marathon with my son at the Swamp Road turning circle, and the organizers were still marking the course just a few minutes before the first runners came past. To make matters worse it was quite clear those marking the route were not even sure what path the runners were supposed to take through the turning circle. This is an astonishing state of affairs for a serious event like a marathon, which requires such extensive training by the participants.
For the race director to claim that all these problems are the fault of the participants is scandalous. For him to then make claims about “record participants”, in what looks for all the world like an attempt to diminish the seriousness of the problems, only makes one question whether anything will ever change.
I ran the half marathon in this course a few years ago, nothing fast, was keeping a friend company, and it was surprisingly disorganized then too, although not as bad as this year. I recall at one point a fair bit of shouting going on by the runners who were frustrated with directions and course layout.
I have written to the Boston Athletic Association with my observations, as I don’t think it is right that the race as currently managed can bill itself as being a “qualifying course” for Boston (a great marathon indeed which I am proud to say I have run).
Others should write to them too: info@baa.org
Nothing will improve unless runners say enough is enough. Maybe the best thing that could happen would be for this marathon to go bust and for a different group of individuals to start a new marathon race for Kelowna and the Okanagan. Sometimes the only way to fix a problem that has deep roots is to start with a clean slate.
Please continue discussion on the forum: link