Comments on: Political fireworks on the agenda for United Church convention in Kelowna http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/ Kelowna. Right Now! Sat, 02 Oct 2010 19:12:54 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Jessica http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-1111 Jessica Wed, 19 Aug 2009 04:30:29 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-1111 I have been a part of the United Church most of my life. Not only attending church, but being involved in Youth Councils. While in the Youth Council, I had the priviledge to attend multiple 'Walk The Talks'. Walk the Talk weekends involves learning about certain issues, while learning what we are able to do to help. One of these weekends was about the Palestine-Israel conflict. We had a humans right activist that came in that has actually been to the area, and gave and incredibly detailed, and both sided education of the conflict. I say this because of the multiple negatives comment I see about, in my view, false claimes about the United Church being leftist' and biased. I have been a part of the United Church most of my life. Not only attending church, but being involved in Youth Councils. While in the Youth Council, I had the priviledge to attend multiple ‘Walk The Talks’. Walk the Talk weekends involves learning about certain issues, while learning what we are able to do to help. One of these weekends was about the Palestine-Israel conflict. We had a humans right activist that came in that has actually been to the area, and gave and incredibly detailed, and both sided education of the conflict.
I say this because of the multiple negatives comment I see about, in my view, false claimes about the United Church being leftist’ and biased.

]]> By: Yaakov Sullivan http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-1069 Yaakov Sullivan Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:59:25 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-1069 As a Muslim ex Christian all I can say I agree with boycott. Also this church is in bad shape. No wonder. All this talking and they are rotten inside... How much money they are willing to put up for Palestinians? This is the question . Talk is cheap. http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=1895389 As a Muslim ex Christian all I can say I agree with boycott. Also this church is in bad shape. No wonder. All this talking and they are rotten inside… How much money they are willing to put up for Palestinians? This is the question . Talk is cheap.

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=1895389

]]> By: Michael http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-974 Michael Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:46:40 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-974 Alex....but we should also remember that the original number of Palestinians who were displaced in 1948 is more or less equibalent to the number of Jews who were expelled from Arab lands at the same time. *Those* refugees were absorbed by Israel and other nations. The state of the Palestinian refugees must be addressed but please do not assume that sole responsibility rests with Israel on this matter. What irks me about the UCC resolutions is their lack of balance. If the UCC is going to get involved in the Middle East then they should do it in a way that is helpful, no? Alex….but we should also remember that the original number of Palestinians who were displaced in 1948 is more or less equibalent to the number of Jews who were expelled from Arab lands at the same time. *Those* refugees were absorbed by Israel and other nations. The state of the Palestinian refugees must be addressed but please do not assume that sole responsibility rests with Israel on this matter. What irks me about the UCC resolutions is their lack of balance. If the UCC is going to get involved in the Middle East then they should do it in a way that is helpful, no?

]]> By: Michael http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-973 Michael Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:42:06 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-973 Mr Gilbert observes, correctly, that the Kassam rockets are highly inaccurate. But Mr. Gilbert fails to mention that each one of those rockets is fired with the intent and hope of striking civilian targets and killing civilians. I think the technology is somewhat beside the point. I await Mr. Gilbert's response to my other points....the lack of proposals that specifically condemn hamas/hezbollah....the implications of Jewish disloyalty....take your time. Mr Gilbert observes, correctly, that the Kassam rockets are highly inaccurate. But Mr. Gilbert fails to mention that each one of those rockets is fired with the intent and hope of striking civilian targets and killing civilians. I think the technology is somewhat beside the point.

I await Mr. Gilbert’s response to my other points….the lack of proposals that specifically condemn hamas/hezbollah….the implications of Jewish disloyalty….take your time.

]]> By: Robert Doe http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-972 Robert Doe Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:51:02 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-972 When is the UCC going to learn that with their past history straying into unknown always comes back to haunt them and can be very unforgiving, as reported in Macleans Magazine It was a stunning defeat for the churches. Last August, that was compounded when another B.C. Supreme Court judge ruled that the Anglican general synod and the Caribou diocese were liable for 60 per cent of an undisclosed amount of damages owed to a student who was sexually abused at the St. George's school. The federal government was apportioned the remaining 40 per cent. The settlement was paid, but the synod is now appealing, arguing Ottawa should pay a larger percentage. "We were there, we participated, but there's no question it was a federal system," says Thorpe of the residential schools. "It was public policy that created them." Even though UCC participated in the crime, there is still denial today about their past actions. I do not recall where the Federal Government stated that it was public policy to sexually abuse and sodimize trusting children even if the UCC states that it was Federal Policy!! When is the UCC going to learn that with their past history straying into unknown always comes back to haunt them and can be very unforgiving, as reported in Macleans Magazine

It was a stunning defeat for the churches. Last August, that was compounded when another B.C. Supreme Court judge ruled that the Anglican general synod and the Caribou diocese were liable for 60 per cent of an undisclosed amount of damages owed to a student who was sexually abused at the St. George’s school. The federal government was apportioned the remaining 40 per cent. The settlement was paid, but the synod is now appealing, arguing Ottawa should pay a larger percentage. “We were there, we participated, but there’s no question it was a federal system,” says Thorpe of the residential schools. “It was public policy that created them.”

Even though UCC participated in the crime, there is still denial today about their past actions.

I do not recall where the Federal Government stated that it was public policy to sexually abuse and sodimize trusting children even if the UCC states that it was Federal Policy!!

]]> By: alex http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-971 alex Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:29:18 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-971 Michael, the whole world has condemned the rockets that Hamas and other factions like Islamic Jihad has launched, and no one is claiming armed struggle will bring the best solution. That is the inherent value of a boycott - it is a peaceful form of civil resistance to the ongoing occupation of Palestine by the Israeli army. Let's not forget the residents of Gaza have been living under siege for three years, with closed borders, no regular food or fuel supplies and daily bombing campaigns from the Israeli army. And even worse, the 2 million Palestinians crammed into Gaza are almost all refugees living in UN camps, displaced since the 1948 war. It's time for some peace and justice to be sure, but only ending the occupation can bring these things about. It's our duty in the west not to create more profits for those perpetuating this occupation. Michael, the whole world has condemned the rockets that Hamas and other factions like Islamic Jihad has launched, and no one is claiming armed struggle will bring the best solution. That is the inherent value of a boycott – it is a peaceful form of civil resistance to the ongoing occupation of Palestine by the Israeli army.

Let’s not forget the residents of Gaza have been living under siege for three years, with closed borders, no regular food or fuel supplies and daily bombing campaigns from the Israeli army. And even worse, the 2 million Palestinians crammed into Gaza are almost all refugees living in UN camps, displaced since the 1948 war. It’s time for some peace and justice to be sure, but only ending the occupation can bring these things about. It’s our duty in the west not to create more profits for those perpetuating this occupation.

]]> By: J Gilbert http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-968 J Gilbert Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:05:51 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-968 Michael points out that Gaza has sent thousands of rockets to Israel. He does not talk about the fatalities (very rare, since these primitive kassams can't be directed with any accuracy) I have been in Sderot, Israel. These residents choose to live there. They could move away and escape the risk from these rockets. And the Gazans under bombardment from one of the most sophisticated war machines in the world? Could they escape? With all due respect, the comparison would be laughable if it weren't so, well, so tired. Michael points out that Gaza has sent thousands of rockets to Israel. He does not talk about the fatalities (very rare, since these primitive kassams can’t be directed with any accuracy) I have been in Sderot, Israel. These residents choose to live there. They could move away and escape the risk from these rockets.
And the Gazans under bombardment from one of the most sophisticated war machines in the world? Could they escape?
With all due respect, the comparison would be laughable if it weren’t so, well, so tired.

]]> By: Michael http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-966 Michael Tue, 11 Aug 2009 13:13:36 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-966 The term antisemite was coined in the late 19th century by Wilhelm Marr to define the hatred of Jews as a specific element of his political platform. No one, Jim, uses the "Arabs are semites, too" argument except people who don't know the history or who deliberately seek to obscure reality. I hope you are one of the former. Let's be clear: criticize Israel to your heart's content, but why are there no *proposals* that condemn the 8000 rockets that have been aimed at Israel. Yes, the UCC does mention such things from time to time, en passant to heavy criticism of Israel. And when you accept into your proposals the notion that MPs who serve the people of Canada have questionable loyalties because they hold dual citizenship with Israel.....well that is just a slap in the face to all Canadians of Jewish heritage. The term antisemite was coined in the late 19th century by Wilhelm Marr to define the hatred of Jews as a specific element of his political platform. No one, Jim, uses the “Arabs are semites, too” argument except people who don’t know the history or who deliberately seek to obscure reality. I hope you are one of the former.

Let’s be clear: criticize Israel to your heart’s content, but why are there no *proposals* that condemn the 8000 rockets that have been aimed at Israel. Yes, the UCC does mention such things from time to time, en passant to heavy criticism of Israel. And when you accept into your proposals the notion that MPs who serve the people of Canada have questionable loyalties because they hold dual citizenship with Israel…..well that is just a slap in the face to all Canadians of Jewish heritage.

]]> By: James Smith http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-961 James Smith Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:21:03 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-961 The UCC is antisemitic through its own sloth and sins of ommission. The denomination has not looked at the complexity of the situation in the Middle East, but has just picked up on the standard leftist view that Israel is mostly to blame. If Jimmy Carter says Israel is an apartheid state, then it must be true! As a former UCC I can attest that there is much merit to the saying that "the United Church is the NDP at prayer". I doubt the denomination would entertain even exploring a solid pro-Israel viewpoint. The UCC is antisemitic through its own sloth and sins of ommission. The denomination has not looked at the complexity of the situation in the Middle East, but has just picked up on the standard leftist view that Israel is mostly to blame. If Jimmy Carter says Israel is an apartheid state, then it must be true!

As a former UCC I can attest that there is much merit to the saying that “the United Church is the NDP at prayer”. I doubt the denomination would entertain even exploring a solid pro-Israel viewpoint.

]]> By: Jim http://www.kelowna.com/2009/08/10/political-fireworks-on-the-agenda-for-united-church-convention/comment-page-1/#comment-957 Jim Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:16:32 +0000 /?p=51732#comment-957 Anyone who disagrees with the CJC is labelled as anti-semetic. Oddly enough Arabs are semites as well. What the United Church is proposing is that Arabs and Jews live peacefully together and respect each others right to exist. Anyone who disagrees with the CJC is labelled as anti-semetic. Oddly enough Arabs are semites as well. What the United Church is proposing is that Arabs and Jews live peacefully together and respect each others right to exist.

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